Neutral hard to get

#1

Hi Walker,

I’m struggling a bit at getting a good neutral curve on the Photo Rag 308 with the new cool ink formulation.

Lighter tones are warm and the darkest tones are cool, it looks like a split but it’s not.

See the values.

What do you think ?

It’s actually a blended curve with 35% Warm.

Best,

Frankie

PhotoRag_i1Profiler_i1io_256_Neutral_M0.txt (7.5 KB)

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#2

I think maybe you need to re-do this with closer to 25% warm in mid/hLs. You can do this simply in the sliders in QTR if you are making a “neutral” just with the Warm and Cool curves. Or you can use the stock cool curve and simply tune it warm or cool in Highlight/Mid/Shadow with the sliders in QTR. This can be your reference setting for building a “hard-coded” neutral curve with the PPEv2 tool later on.

Also, always measure in D50 mode too. ColorPort exports data by default in Illuminant A (not d50).

Also, the very base shadows always go a tiny bit warm due to 100% carbon at the end (most archival and darkest black).

Neutral is always the a hardest to achieve . . . . .

best,
Walker

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#3

I think the only option is to split yes… not the easiest part !

D50 is okay, I double checked it, now using an i1io and i1Profiler, much quicker than measuring by hand.

The stock neutral you made was already a split looking for neutral or just a basic blend with the same % on all tones ?

Best,
Frankie

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#4

The stock for this printer/paper was a slight split as a recall. It was several years ago so I’m not sure if I remember correctly.

-Walker

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#5

I’m actually testing some splits to “linearize” the cool/warm for all the values.

I’m trying to match a Lab b ± 1 to get a bit of warmth (don’t like the perfect neutral so much).
I get something approximately good but needed to do a huge split to get this result (29-31-80 in Print Tool).
The cool tones seems to be very blue so I need to push the warm% very high on the shadows.

Do you think this is kind of “normal” ?

Best,
Frankie

29-31-80_M0.txt (7.5 KB)

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#6

Yeah. Because the “B” is negative on the paper base itself, and because there is less “color” in the highlights, larger swings would be needed to perfectly neutralize.

-Walker

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#7

12.70 L* on the dMax. :sunglasses:

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#8

I understand yes, thanks for the explanation.

The black is so deeeep yes, I like it ! :slight_smile:

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#9

Any idea how I can now replicate this curve to make it a “hard curve” in PiezoProfessional ?
I need to blend the cool & the warm but I need to put 7 values and only get 3 in Print Tool.

29/29/29/31/80/80/80 could work ? (I’m at 29-31-80 in PrintTool).

Best,

Frankie

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#10

you need to slope it evenly for 29 to 31 and then 31 to 80.

-Walker

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#11

The PrintTool values are the extremes ?

Like this ? (then I need to complete them in the Blender)
RGB 255 = 29%
RGB 128 = 31%
RGB 0 = 80%

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#12

yeah. SO for the the other ones in-between they should be sloped (% amount).

I will upload a screenshot when I get the chance. If you don’t figure it out.

29/29/29/31/80/80/80 makes a very steep move between the 31/80. You need something like 29 30 30 31 65 75 80

best,
Walker

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#13

Perfect, I’ll do this.

Thanks Walker !

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#14

Update : the blue shift is completely gone, nothing has changed except that I did some print tests.

It’s really strange !

@walkerblackwell Can you send me a .txt file with the LAB data of a 100% cool target you already measured so I can compare the blue values ?
That would help me figure out if my cool inks are ok.

Here are the papers I can measure to get a comparison : Hah PhotoRag308, UltraSmooth, BrightWhite, Museum Etching and Fine Art Baryta.

Thanks !

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